My father in law recently bought a Mac. A powerbook, to be exact. That entire side of the family is really into Macs, and his powerbook is an upgrade from a pre-OSX computer. It's a big step really, as this is his first portable computer. And he got rid of his desktop altogether.

Now, there was a dilemma in his recent purchase. He was this close " (see the space in the middle of the apostrophe?) from getting an x86 laptop at Circuit City, or maybe even a Dell or similar.

He did some exploring, however, and decided to stick with the Mac. He wanted a system that was intuitive, easy to figure out, nice looking, and would just work. Looking at Dell, it appears as if he could have saved over $1000 by going x86, but it was worth it to him.

Same with his printer and wireless. I hadn't seen these before, but apparently Apple has a wireless router / print server all in one. At the time, he spent $150 on it, as it was something that could just be plugged in and would work. I'm not familar with such a nice looking equivalent in the x86 world, but buying a wireless router and printer server seperatly would be under $100. But that's okay, he wants to be able to plug it all in, get it working, without having to bother us or anyone else to get it up and running.

I was a bit excited over all this, as he was going to have a nice setup at his house. I could bring my PDA or laptop over there and hop on the Net to do, well, whatever :-)

I hadn't been to his house much since last Christmas when he got all of this. Shana and I went over there this past weekend to meet up with him and some other folks. I stuffed my Zaurus into my back pocket, this was going to be fun to try out. Maybe I could show off my slick device a bit :-)

When I got there, I noticed something about the Mac wireless routers that I didn't know. They completely masked their signature when running (something I thought only enemy ships in Star Trek did to their warp trail), my Zaurus couldn't even see it. I know he was on the Net, he had just been using his laptop as we arrived. I'm not sure how it did it, but it seemed like a nice security feature. A device for people who don't necessarily know (or want to know) a lot about computers adding a significant layer of security. Hackers won't break into a network they can't see.

Then I looked a bit closer, and saw not one, but two cables coming out from his laptop. And even closer inspection revealed that one was ethernet. Aha! That's why I don't see the wireless.

I inquired as to why he wasn't using his new hi-tech gadgets. Apparently, he couldn't get them to work. Actually, not only could he not get them to work, but the Mac guru's in the family couldn't get them to work either (all the kings horses and all the kings men). The only way he could both get on the network, and be able to use the printer, was to not use the wireless (it's a bit more complicated than that, but we'll leave those details for anyone volunteering to help :-)

So, he happily announced that he was going to travel to Philadelphia, to the "local" Mac shop, to have them upgrade his machine to Tiger (which I believe he was, at this point, too nervous to do himself), as well as get the printer and wireless goodies working. They will certainly be able to get it working, while gladly taking what's left of his wallet. And he'll have a smile on his face the whole time, because he spent more money for the better product that just works :-)

The term Cognitive Dissonance is the first thing that comes to mind here (actually, it wasn't -- I thought of the idea, it took me an hour to remember the name for that :-)

While I suspect this situation isn't the norm, I can't help but be amused at the bigger picture.

After all is said and done, he'll have been some $1500 - $2000 richer if he had gone with a Dell, a Netgear router, and seperate wireless print server. Anyone -- including the kid across the street from him -- could have helped get those three things working. He'd be using them now (it's been since Christmas!), not waiting for when it's convenient to go to Philly to have someone else fix it. Yes, he'd be more prone to spyware in XP. But with the firewall in SP2, as well as using Firefox over IE, I think that could be minimized (my parents -- using Firefox, XP SP2, and good surfing habits, have very little Spyware trouble).

Actually, as a teacher -- his primary apps are Word, Excel, web based email, and surfing the Net. Even Linux could handle that well, though being a Gentoo user, I'm not prepared to say that's easier to setup than a Mac :-)

I can only hope that he's gaining something else by his choice of OS, such as improved usability in his day to day work.

First, I'm certainly not opposed to convenience. I spent money to save time. It costs money each time I run a washer and dryer, or the dishwasher. And if it doesn't come out right the first time, I stick it back in until it's clean.

Any one of us could learn to fix clogs, weld, redo a roof, tile a kitchen, replace a toilet. But there's a lot of other things we'd prefer to be doing. So we hire an electrician, plumber, mechanic, builder, and so on. Most of us are willing to spend money to save time.

I'm not sure the car analogy fits though. The Mac claim is more along the lines of a car which doesn't require a license to drive, and doesn't need an annual checkup or oil changes. It works, and continues to work, for the user.

Some things could require maintenance -- even an easy to use car could somehow end up in an accident (or someone could manage to delete necessary system files). And the things of this world all have lifespans -- tires wear out, hard drives develop bad sectors. So I'm not saying a Mac would never require repair.

What I'm saying is that he bought a car with all the above mentioned features, spending twice as much as a typical car -- and he ended up with something as difficult to use as a normal car -- but far more difficult to maintain (it was an import!). Which led to a net result of losses on many fronts. He can't even drive it in the highway :-)

Nate, I considered not saying who it was, but no one who knows him bothers to read my blog (or even knows about it so far as I can tell :-) But yes, I pity him for having me as a son-in-law regardless :-)

I'm not sure what the normal Mac experience is though, as I don't know any other non-geek who owns a Mac :-)

Of course I had to chime in. :)

I think his Mac experience is the exception and not the rule. I, personally, had rock solid performance out of my Powerbook until it was surrounded by too many linux geeks. Easily fixed once I got home however.

I'm also of the opinion that Macs aren't too overpriced. It's hard to make a valid comparison because they are totally different platforms, but a Powerbook is a fully loaded deluxe model. Feature for feature, when I've tried to price a Dell or something out that would compare it usually comes out around the same price. People often forget the iBook, which is a much cheaper alternative if you trying to budget shop.

Here's a great article I found a little while back (NYTimes, use login or bugmenot): http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/26/technology/circuits/26POGUE-EMAIL.html?oref=login&oref=login

I think that lays some good ground rules for intelligent Mac vs whatever discussion. :)

And, as for the non-geek experience, my Dad uses a Mac. His purchase of a 17" Powerbook is actually one of the things that prompted me to get one. He's had a Mac longer than I and has had no problems. He even upgraded to Tiger before I did. The whole family uses it (him, my half-sister and step-mother). Happily surfing, emailing, ripping his vinyl collection to MP3, uploading and editing digital photos. He loves it (did I say that already?)

So, sorry to hear about your dad-in-law. I don't have the full Airport Extreme but I've got an Airport Express from Apple and was blown away by its ease of use and features. I set it up on my existing wireless network and it actually copied the WPA passphrase I had stored on my powerbook over to the router, saving me from having to set it up manually. Very nice. I've also used the Airport to give wireless net access to LUG meetings. Linux geeks and Macs, co-existing peacefully. Who would have thought?

Excelsior!

I'm glad to hear there are better experiences with Mac's and non-geeks.

I also thought that was a good article, pointing out good rules people need to follow if they feel the need to argue about this or that. The "not hating something until you've tried it" I think is especially appropriate :-) They're also correct that what's good or bad is also quite based on a specific person's point of view. It can very much be either, for different people.

I think it'll take a lot before anyone is satisfied with the benchmarks regarding P4 vs AMD vs G5's. I'm not sure how we could possible compare them.

But I think it'll take a lot to convince me that the prices are anything near similar. Lets take two examples:

First, on the high end. I've been eyeing up the Dell Inspiron 9300 (I actually bought one, it's on the way). For about $1700 (Dell provides $750 off coupons almost every day on techbargains.com, I'm counting that (code JS0K84R588C7FZ)), you can get a Pentium M 1.86ghz system with 1GB of RAM, a 100GB drive, Nvidia 6800 video card, wireless, stereo speakers, subwoofer, and it has a 17" screen that can do 1920x1200 (WUXGA).

Apple's 17" model powerbook, at the base level, costs $2700. It includes a 1.67Ghz P4 chip (which who knows how it compares to the Intel model), but it has 512MB of RAM (half that of the Dell), an ATI Radeon 9700 with 128MB of RAM (older than the Nvidia, with half as much video RAM), and it only does 1440x900 (WXGA). And it's still $1000 more. The Apple is 1 pound lighter, and has gigabyte ethernet. But I don't feel that makes up for the other things it lacks as compared to the Dell Inspiron.

On the lower end, we'll assume for a moment that we have a budget user, not one looking for ultra portability. Meaning, we're looking at 14" screens, not 12" ones.

With that assumption, lets take a look. When I think budget, the first thing that comes to mind is Walmart. Walmart has low end laptops starting at $500, containing 1.1Ghz AMD chips with a very basic set of features. But it is a laptop, and for $500. I have a buddy right now looking into these -- he doesn't have a whole lot in his budget set aside for computing, but he really wants something more portable than a desktop. He's looking at these.

Circuit City has a Toshiba Satellite M35X-S114 with a 15" screen for only $550, including a rebate. It has a 1.3ghz celeron, wireless, a cdrw/dvd drive, 256MB of RAM, and a 40GB drive.

Compare that to the cheapest 14" iBook, which is $1300. The iBook has a 1.33Ghz G4 (probably faster than the Toshiba), 256MB of RAM (same as the Toshiba), a 60GB drive (20GB more), and a Radeon 9200 with 32MB of RAM (I'm not sure how that compares to the Intel Extreme in the Toshiba). The screen is one inch smaller in the Apple. So the iBook looks nicer, and has some better features -- and Toshiba has a larger screen. I'm not convinced, hardware-wise, that the iBook is worth $1300 -- more than double the Toshiba.

Those examples are at the extreme low-end. There are a number of laptops x86 closer to $1000 that outspec not just the iBook, but even the 17" powerbook.

For example, going back to Inspiron 9300. Lowering the specs a bit (using the $600 off coupon -- code 6Z?2PWLKGRH33L from techbargains.com), it's available at $1100. That includes the 17" WXGA screen, a 1.60Ghz chip, 512MB of RAM, ATI X300 video with 128MB of RAM, a 100GB drive, wireless, etc. Nearly every part of that either matches or outspecs the powerbook that's $1600 more expensive. Yet, this notebook is cheaper than Apple's low end iBook.

Compaq has a similarly priced and spec'd notebook as well. Those are just some of the recent ones to show up on techbargains (ie, in the last 2 days). There's plenty more all the time.

Macs may have an advantage over x86. Some may find them easier to use for multiple reasons (OS operability, hardware compatabilty, and others). Others make like the looks, Apple's tend to look much nicer. But I just can't see that there's any similarity at all in pricing, x86 seems significantly cheaper.

Firstly, a couple reactions to your last comment, Eric. a) I wouldn't consider the use of coupons in a price for price comparison. Coupons are used by very few, those in "the know." The large majority of Dell's customers do not use these coupons (or know about them) when purchasing a system. Heck, Dell's a business. They wouldn't be offering these coupons if they thought even a significant percentage would be redeemed. So let's stick with what the average consumer would pay.
b) When I say the iBook is "budget", I really meant budget like the Inspiron vs the Latitude. Perhaps home vs business class would be a better comparison?

So that said, let's compare a 15" Latitude to a 15" Powerbook.
Pricing a Latitude D810 w/ 2.13GHz (fastest available), WinXP Pro, 15.4" WXGA screen, 512MB of RAM, 802.11g wireless plus bluetooth, 80GB hard drive, DVD+-RW comes out to $2,533.

Now, a 15" Powerbook w/ the same options (512MB RAM, 80gb HD, wireless+bluetooth, Superdrive) comes stock at $2,299. The Powerbook also includes Firewire and Firewire 800 ports. DVI out. Gigabit ethernet. Backlit keyboard (ooo!) All at a price cheaper than the Latitide. :)

And I might argue that the quality of the Powerbook is really a great deal more than the Latitude. How much would a Thinkpad cost with those specs? I don't feel ripped off by Apple's prices. "You get what you pay for."

This argument only works, of course, if you buy my basic assumptions. if you think quality of Inspiron is really equal or greater than Powerbook, then the argument fails. But we can't really argue opinions. We'd just have to agree to disagree. :)

And that's just HARDWARE, then there's the software... oh, look, I'm out of time. We'll have to save that for another day. :)

I am sorry to hear about your dad and his problems with his new power book.

The question you fail to answer is even with the networking problem was he happy with it?

Second since you shortchange the description of the problem, was the problem with wireless printing or wireless web surfing?

Third, value is a difficult propsition to determine. For example, is a BMW worth the premium after all a Camry is almost as fast, more reliable and far cheaper?

It is clear that you consider the Apple to be a poor value but consider this, a friend just bought a Dell desktop paid $1300.00 for it, I just bought a Apple Imac 2.0 ghz paid 1500.00 for it who got the better deal? It is clear that you would argue my friend did, afterall his was cheaper, but again is a BMW worth the extra cost?

Finally, consider the value of time. Last year I left a job that provided me with both an Apple desktop and laptop, I loved both. When I left I needed a new computer from home and a friend convinced me to build my own Wintel machine. I scrounged some parts bought some others and created a Athlon 2700 with 1/2 a gig of ram for a mere $300 dollars. (This is not a reasonable true cost since my friend had an old case a 40 gig hard drive laying around, and an old video card) The machine worked, it would boot, surf the net and write papers everything I truly needed, but I hated every minute of use because of fear.

Fear of viruses, fear of spyware, fear of crashes. These fears were non-existent on my Apple. I had to spend about an hour a week cleaning spyware, updating anti-virus definitions, installing patches and other general maintainence. In additon since the machine was never fully stable (I blame hardware not ms since this was truly a bastard machine) I could not leave it on all the time thus I spent a consider able amount of time waiting for the machine to boot.

Thus if you consider the value of time (at my job I earn $31.50 an hour), and I spent at least an hour a week maintaing the wintel machine thus, over the year of use I spent the equivalent of 52 X $31.50 = $1638.00

Is $1638.00 + $300.00 = $1938.00 the true cost of my wintel machine? Did I gain the value of nearly $2000.00 in the course of the year?

In my mind no, I wasn't as productive, I was frequently annoyed, and constantly worried about every new site I visited on the net, worried about each email I opened and had to spend additional time educating my wife how not to get infected.

People who buy Apples believe them to be a good value and are generally more satisfied with their purchases, please check out the consumer reports surveys to see how consumers actually view the value of their purchases.

Regards

Paul

I have a friend who had a PC. She saw me using my Mac every day and, you know, "it just works", that kind of thing, so she bought a Mac. She couldn't get her previous PC to work well, and sometimes to work at all, so she really looked forward to the Mac which, well, "just worked"... except she couldn't get the Mac to work, either. She kept calling me and asking why exe files wouldn't run. What's with this one-button mouse? Where's the program for creating this, or copying that? "It's all drag and drop, dear, no program, no hands, see?" But she couldn't see. She kept looking for the Microsoft way of doing things. I learned she was about to sell her iMac on eBay and bought it for several hundred dollars less than she paid for it. She bought a Dell. She still can't get it to work and is amazed that the Mac she used to own works so well for me. But at least her exe files will run now. My point here is some computers are pixilated, even Macs (although I have no personal experience with this), while sometimes it's the person who's pixilated.

Now, as for the Mac vs. PC value argument, Macs and PCs, when compared fairly, cost roughtly the same. It's not the box, though, Mac users buy. It's Mac OS X. No one without a HUGE investment in MS software would compare Windows XT with OS X. It's not Toyota vs. BMW, it's Ford Model A vs. Mustang.

But of course, that's just my opinion.

First, I wanted to thank you all for the discussion. I find it thrilling that we can all discuss the merits of various hardware and software platforms without it degenerating to the sillyness we see some other places :-) I very much do seek to learn more about the various platforms out there, nor do I claim to be an expert in any of them.

What made me initially write about this is due to the irony I saw in his purchase. He said that he wanted to buy a Mac knowing that it would cost more, because he wanted it all to work out of the box. As Lon also mentioned, it definitely sounds like my father-in-law's experience was an exception in the Mac world. Nonetheless, I still find it amusing :-)

I am sorry to hear about your dad and his problems with his new power book.

You don't happen to live in the Central Pennsylvania area, do you? ;-)

The question you fail to answer is even with the networking problem was he happy with it?

I hinted at that just a bit -- and this is what I have a hard time following -- he seems quite happy with it, which is where the term "Cognitive Dissonance" had come up.

In his situation, with all the frustrations he's had (and the fact that many things still don't work to this day, over 6 months after he bought it), I guess I'm a bit surprised as to how happy he is.

Second since you shortchange the description of the problem, was the problem with wireless printing or wireless web surfing?

I don't mean to be elusive. I actually don't have an incredible understanding of the problem he's having. All that I know is that, when using the wireless, some things don't work properly, including the printer. I had attempted to inquire about that with the folks doing the fixing, but they weren't in the mood to talk about it much at the time (which I fully understand, I get grumpy too when I'm in the middle of fixing something that's kicking my butt :-) I do know that it was their feeling that the problem wouldn't be fixable until they were able to upgrade the OS.

Third, value is a difficult propsition to determine. For example, is a BMW worth the premium after all a Camry is almost as fast, more reliable and far cheaper?

Indeed. Lon (who had posted some of the above comments) and I were chatting in IRC yesterday about that exact issue. A lot of it comes down to the eye of the beholder. People want different things out of their computer... and editor, browser, political party, etc. It's incredibly difficult to quantify "value". At a certain point, you're no longer debating technical merits, you're discussing who's opinion is better.

It is clear that you consider the Apple to be a poor value but consider this, a friend just bought a Dell desktop paid $1300.00 for it, I just bought a Apple Imac 2.0 ghz paid 1500.00 for it who got the better deal? It is clear that you would argue my friend did, afterall his was cheaper, but again is a BMW worth the extra cost?

Alas, my brain is a bit more twisted than that :-)

Ultimatly, you're right, I do tend to feel that I can get more out of a PC than an Apple. For the things I use it for. In case it matters, I'm also a Linux user.... so the first thing to go would be Windows. I'm attempting to keep the discussion more generic though, as not everyone could, or would want to, run Linux.

In the case you list, all I know about the Dell is that is cost $1300. What I know about the Apple is that it's 2Ghz, and cost $1500. That's a bit more info, but I'd need far more in order to decide the technical merits of one over the other.

I'll also mention that, being that the cost of the laptops is over $1000 -- the difference of $200 between the two isn't much. For similar hardware, if each person thought they'd gotten a good deal, I would suggest that you each spent about the same amount. I wouldn't say one did better than the other. This is of course relative -- but I figure most people who can afford $1300, could handle $1500. So, it would all come down to the hardware. The devil is in the details :-)

I'm cautious to work with your BMW example -- a lot of people would say that a BMW is just a status symbol, as opposed to a higher quality car. And I don't think people buy Apple's for status, I believe they feel they're getting the best possible computer.

Finally, consider the value of time. Last year I left a job that provided me with both an Apple desktop and laptop, I loved both. When I left I needed a new computer from home and a friend convinced me to build my own Wintel machine. I scrounged some parts bought some others and created a Athlon 2700 with 1/2 a gig of ram for a mere $300 dollars. (This is not a reasonable true cost since my friend had an old case a 40 gig hard drive laying around, and an old video card) The machine worked, it would boot, surf the net and write papers everything I truly needed, but I hated every minute of use because of fear.

I'm a big proponent of trading money for time. One has to figure out what their time is worth, and decide what they're willing to use it on. There is only so much time in a day, it's a shame to waste it on things we don't want or care about.

As some of you know (and make fun of me for ;-), I recently bought a Robomower, that handles mowing my lawn. And I love it :-)

Fear of viruses, fear of spyware, fear of crashes. These fears were non-existent on my Apple. I had to spend about an hour a week cleaning spyware, updating anti-virus definitions, installing patches and other general maintainence. In additon since the machine was never fully stable (I blame hardware not ms since this was truly a bastard machine) I could not leave it on all the time thus I spent a consider able amount of time waiting for the machine to boot.

From my perspective, this is a big difference of Linux and Windows. Desktop Linux has a similar rate of viruses and spyware of OSX (ie, little).

Not everyone is a Linux user though. So, I'll shift to my parents, who use XP. They use McAfee (or was it Norton), and have never gotten a virus. They use good surfing habits, and don't install random junk. They get very little spyware, and running a scan every week or so handles the little they do.

Which, of course, is a far cry from some other people I've seen. Many of the people I work with have home computers so overrun with spyware that they really aren't usable. The spyware programs can't even delete it at a certain point, and require an advanced user to assist. That's a situation a Linux or Mac user never runs into.

Getting as far away from Microsoft as possible seems to be the key. Running, for example, Firefox instead of IE seems to make a huge difference, even for users who don't know what they're doing.

Thus if you consider the value of time (at my job I earn $31.50 an hour), and I spent at least an hour a week maintaing the wintel machine thus, over the year of use I spent the equivalent of 52 X $31.50 = $1638.00

Is $1638.00 + $300.00 = $1938.00 the true cost of my wintel machine? Did I gain the value of nearly $2000.00 in the course of the year?

For many people, it may be. And that's just for a year. Most people would use that computer for years.

However, my parents, Wintel users, don't spend that much time per week. They only spend a minute or so opening Adaware, downloading the latest dat file, and clicking the scan button. Walk away to watch tv, and on some commercial, have it fix anything it found. For them, it's also rare that it finds anything. But again, that works for people with enough knowledge to use something other than IE, and who know enough not to install the Weather Bug :-) On a Mac or with Linux, one doesn't have to think like that. But one could! There's been enough serious holes in Firefox that, if anyone cared to, they could have written spyware to take advantage of it. However, it doesn't make sense at the moment, it's less than 10% market share.

In my mind no, I wasn't as productive, I was frequently annoyed, and constantly worried about every new site I visited on the net, worried about each email I opened and had to spend additional time educating my wife how not to get infected.

Sure. And a lot of people aren't. With the idea of spyware at hand, a lot of people may be more productive with a Mac, over the course of a year.

However, with some small modifications to ones habits, I think one can use a Windows computer with minimal risk to spyware and viruses. Switching to Firefox and Thunderbird is a huge deal. As is using a firewall, including what comes with Windows XP SP2.

But that's the problem, these don't come on the majority of machines by default. One has to know to get them.

People who buy Apples believe them to be a good value and are generally more satisfied with their purchases, please check out the consumer reports surveys to see how consumers actually view the value of their purchases.

OSX by default, is more secure and less prone to problems like viruses and spyware. Most would also claim that OSX is easier to use.

Here's the issue I don't know how to view. I don't know how to explain the differences in hardware. The three of you who posted about Macs have all said that the quality of the hardware is better. That's also the claim in home versus business laptops from Dell -- you pay more for a business laptop because of higher quality. Even if the specs are lesser. That's what I can't put my finger on... the majority of people are just fine getting a Dell home computer, and most have no problems at all. The majority of complaints about Dell is their support, not the quality of the home laptops.

So, I'm comparing a high end 17" Dell laptop, versus the high end Apple PowerBook. And I'm being told I'm not comparing apples to apples (get it? bwhahahaha). Maybe you guys can help me out -- what are the hardware quality differences between a Dell home and business class laptop? Or, using my recent example, that of a Dell Inspiron 9300 versus an Apple PowerMac?

The specs of the Inspiron were much better, and the cost was much lower. I can appreciate that OSX was designed to just work, for whoever. That it's not prone to virus and spyware issues as compared to XP. And a whole boatload of other things. So I'm just curious what the other hardware differences are.... unless you're saying that the primary difference is the OS, not the hardware. I guess I'm asking what, exactly, makes a BMW better :-)

My point here is some computers are pixilated, even Macs (although I have no personal experience with this), while sometimes it's the person who's pixilated.

Hah! That's a good story, and an excellent quote. Indeed, so true.

In this case, the person who was having trouble had been a Mac user since the Apple IIe. In fact, he still has 10 of them in his closet. However, a long time user doesn't necessarily mean a proficient one. Nor does it mean he would understand how to setup a wireless print server. But I can certainly appreciate that his issue isn't the norm.

Now, as for the Mac vs. PC value argument, Macs and PCs, when compared fairly, cost roughtly the same. It's not the box, though, Mac users buy. It's Mac OS X. No one without a HUGE investment in MS software would compare Windows XT with OS X. It's not Toyota vs. BMW, it's Ford Model A vs. Mustang.

I guess what you bring up here is part of the information I'm seeking. When you say about comparing them fairly -- how is that exactly? What do you see the hardware differences (or similarities) as being?

As a Linux user, I end up buying the hardware, not the OS. I've always found x86 to be the best platform for me. It's always worked well, and the price has been great. But if that's not a fair comparison, what would be? And, in favor of Macs -- I do know that Linus just went out and bought a Mac to use for Linux development, that's now his primary machine :-)

If it's Mac OSX that people are buying, moreso than the hardware -- would you like to see OSX available on PC's (x86)?

He could have phoned Apple tech support and for free they would have got him up and running in five minutes.

With Macs, it is primarily the OS ..... plus the integration with the excellent hardware and design.

Hello Eric, funny story. Also an interesting conversation. I can appreciate a real discussion where all of the participants are trying to learn something new and grow their perspective. A lot better than shouting opinions at each other ad nauseum. I have an opinion, but it's not my identity and I don't have to defend it as if it were truly me.

So a good site for feature by feature comparisons between systems is http://www.systemshootouts.org/ His upper end laptop comparison is between a 15" PowerBook ($1999) and a Dell Inspirion 8600 ($2000). He notes which system rates better in each feature. He also explains his methodology and how he compares the processors. There was also another article about comparing systems at http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2005/04/of-course-macs-are-more-expensive_24.html that I remember reading.

One part of the equation that your comparisons miss is the included software besides the OS installed. I can understand why you don't think of doing that being a Linux user, however this isn't what most people are interested in as you have conceded. I also don't think there is quite the same level of multimedia software in open source yet. Please let me know if there actually is. Once the functionality of what you can do right from the get go is factored in the comparison looks a lot different.

Also please understand that one of the big reasons that Macs are so much easier to maintain is the fact that Apple is able to configure the hardware and the software. The parts may all come from other companies but they decide how it goes together and when something goes wrong, there is one manufacturer to call to find out why. I don't really want to run OS X on x86 hardware. I've worked for computer support and repair companies, besides doing it in my own time. It's hard enough tracking down hardware problems and no easier when you get a whole system from a vendor like Dell or Compaq. Having dealt with their people and products after customers would come in with problems, I don't really trust the quality of their hardware. They squeeze their profits by cutting the costs as razor thin as possible. I once spent an hour getting a fan back on after cleaning it because it was put on with pronged rubber connectors instead of screws with rubber washers. (I grit my teeth in memory, Ahh!). Other repair shop would refuse to work on Compaqs because they would be so likely to break something else in the process of fixing them. And whenever I've compared the feel of any of Apple's products to their competitors, the other brands always feel cheaper in my hands. They are clunky, bulky, made with cheap plastic, with interfaces like a crowd of people all shouting for attention. (Sorry, that's the image I get) I pay attention to design. I'm very visual. Apple has a kind of feng-shui to their products. Most others are very UN-feng :-)

There are also very good reasons for using the PowerPC chips over x86 ones in Apple computers. The more RISC architecture and AltiVec add on give the Mac a lot of strength in dealing with multimedia and graphics. I'm sure that a switch could be done. However the pain involved in getting all of their users and developers to convert all of the existing software library over would certainly outweigh any real benefit. I really wish the press would stop bringing it up like it was the best thing for Apple to do.

So, a large part is certainly MacOSX and Apple's other software. But it's also the entire package. Just like how iTunes and it's music store and the iPod all just work together to create an enjoyable experience where you aren't focusing on all of the details of the technology, that's how it is with their computers. For the most part the computer becomes invisible and gets out of your way so YOU can 'just work'. In comparison Windows always puts alerts and wizards and confounding menus in front of me. It demands that I do things its way. I remember someone relating how his 12 year old son learned iMovie and made a school video project over a weekend that blew his class away. He was then teaching his classmates and teacher how to use it. This was not a very technically inclined kid, yet the program was easy to learn and enabled him to do amazing things.

I have been using computers of one sort or another for most of my life. My first one was a TRS-80 Model I (Talk about Model-Ts). I also really liked the Apple IIs, and the Commadores. I finally got a Mac because I found that I wasn't having fun on my computer anymore. It was always aggravating and a chore. It's been 3 years since I got my first Mac and I'm still having fun and discovering things.

So really what I bought, and what most Mac lovers buy is the whole experience. Something truly had to convey or explain. The only way to really 'get' something like that is to... well, experience it. Only then can a conversation about it truly take place. That's what makes these discussions so frustrating. It's only human nature to relate new things to what we already know. That's why Richard's friend couldn't make a Mac work for her. Her preconceptions about computers kept her from adapting to something different. It's ironic because what she wanted WAS something that was different. Or more succinctly, "People are really funny!"

You know oddly enough, that's what a lot of advertising seems to be about. Selling you on the 'experience'. You can talk all you want about specs, but that doesn't mean anything to people until you explain the benefits. And once they believe that their experience with the product will be wonderful, they will gladly pay the price. Conversely a bad experience will taint your perception. If your father-in-law is still so happy after such a frustratingly bad experience (and Mac users do sometimes have them), it speaks volumes about what the rest of his experience is like. It seems ironic because that is the part that you weren't around for.

Yikes. Didn't mean to go on for so long. Anyway, hope it helps answer some of your questions or at least be interesting thought chow. Let me know if you would like any other resources. Another interesting discussion had been happening at http://www.securityawareness.blogspot.com/ which focuses on security for "Ma, Pa, and the Corporate Clueless"